Rhodesia
The UK House of Lords
Discussion on the continuation of sanctions
HL Deb 25th January 1968 vol 288 cc433-6
(3.5p.m.)
LORD BROCKWAY
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
[The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether conclusions have been reached from the review of sanctions operated against the illegal administration in Southern Rhodesia with a view to making them more effective.]
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS (LORD SHEPHERD)
My Lords, Her Majesty's Government's review of sanctions is a continuing one. It would be undesirable to give the régime advance warning of any conclusions reached or new measures in view.
LORD BROCKWAY
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Is he aware, first, that the Prime Minister and other spokesmen for the Government have indicated that serious consideration is being given to making sanctions more effective? May I ask whether, in this connection, he would consider raising at the United Nations the issue that both South Africa and Portugal are not carrying out the decision of the United Nations in this matter, and that United Nations pressure should be exerted for this purpose?
LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, it is certainly the intention of Her Majesty's Government to make sanctions more effective rather than to extend them; but in regard to the latter part of my noble friend's supplementary question, it is the responsibility of the Secretary-General of the United Nations to report to the Security Council on the progress of the implementation of mandatory sanctions. It is the Security Council's responsibility to ensure that sanctions are effective.
LORD BROCKWAY
Yes, my Lords. But is it not a fact that the British Government are represented (and we are very glad to welcome the noble Lord, Lord Caradon, as that representative) on the Security Council? Therefore have not the British Government the opportunity to raise this matter at the Security Council, and not leave it to the Secretary-General?
LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, the, United Nations is not one of my fields of responsibility. I am sure that your Lordships are delighted to see our noble friend Lord Caradon present and he will be speaking later. It is true that we are represented on the Security Council, but my understanding is that it is the responsibility of the Secretary-General in this matter.
LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURY
My Lords, it would appear from the answer which the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, has just given that it is still the policy of Her Majesty's Government to attempt to bring the Rhodesian Government to its knees through the operation of sanctions. That being so, would he take note of the following two things? First, that policy, of course, will make it quite unnecessary for Mr. Smith to bother about the emergence of any opposition in Rhodesia in his fight for survival. Secondly, with the increasing cost of sanctions to this country and the damage to our balance of payments arising both with regard to Rhodesia and from the ban on exports to South Africa, is it not likely that what the Government are doing is to make a second devaluation—which is already being talked about—almost a certainty?
LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, I understand that the noble Lord, Lord Grimston of Westbury, participated in a Division last night. It was a Division on an Amendment that deplored the alleged breaking of faith by Her Majesty's Government with friends in the Far East. The noble Lord will of course recognise that if these allegations were correct, at least they were made under a free Government by a free people who can speak for themselves. We in this Parliament have a responsibility for some four million people in Rhodesia who to-day cannot speak for themselves. It is therefore our duty to see that the Rhodesians are brought back to legality and that there shall be an opportunity for genuine political advance for the peoples in Rhodesia.
LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURY
My Lords, it would be a very good thing if the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, would apply that to other nations with whom he has dealings, where the inhabitants have no rights at all. But that is part of the double-talk that always goes on. Would the noble Lord take note again that from what he has said to-day there will never be a solution of the Rhodesian problem which will end in agreement, and that is a tragedy?
LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Grimston of Westbury, takes a more dismal view of human nature than I do. I believe that there will be a solution in Rhodesia, although it may take time. I will say to the noble Lord that if there are any double standards they lie with those who refuse to give the rights and privileges to these people who cannot speak for themselves.
LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURY
My Lords, the Prime Minister
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD SHACKLETON)
My Lords, I wonder whether I might interrupt the noble Lord. I do not think that a request to "take note" really amounts to a supplementary question. I do not wish to be difficult, but perhaps the noble Lord would phrase a specific question, bearing in mind that he and my noble friend have between them rather contrived to widen the question?
LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURY
My Lords, I shall, of course, defer to the new Leader.
VISCOUNT CALDECOTE
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether it is the clear view of the Government that the continued imposition of sanctions is the best way to encourage moderate opinion to arise in Rhodesia?
LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, it is the only weapon that appears to be open to use by ourselves at the present time. As the noble Viscount will know, it is the policy of Her Majesty's Government to leave the door open for negotiations, and if there were to be any approach by responsible persons, particularly by the Government in Rhodesia—the alleged Government—we should be only too ready to meet them.
